tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5752826158262183491.post8543857888519000591..comments2008-12-06T20:47:41.789ZScottish Unionisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09852056180313432298noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5752826158262183491.post-71299918668076831402008-12-06T13:00:00.000Z2008-12-06T13:00:00.000Z<I>Because Ireland and Britain are equal in a way that Scotland and Britain are not.</I><BR/><BR/>Again, what on Earth are you talking about? Scotland *is* part of (Great) Britain, you dolt. Ireland is not. Furthermore, it takes a irresponsible cretin of astronomic scale to suggest that, of the two, the history between these two islands has been one of equality and coexistence compared to Scottish history... oh, wait.Alec Macphersonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03234743636500643168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5752826158262183491.post-41183711839600457802008-12-05T16:53:00.000Z2008-12-05T16:53:00.000ZIndy<BR/><BR/><I>"The idea for example that you could have a Scottish passport is simply absurd. How could you be a Scottish national when Scotland is not a nation state?"</I><BR/><BR/>I have an EU passport. That's not a nation state. What's the big deal?Scottish Unionisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09852056180313432298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5752826158262183491.post-24083516940943928512008-12-05T16:52:00.000Z2008-12-05T16:52:00.000ZIndy<BR/><BR/><I>A state cannot be ordered in anything other than nationalistic terms.</I><BR/><BR/>No. What you mean is that you can't envision it any other way. Your loss.Scottish Unionisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09852056180313432298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5752826158262183491.post-91835190283054911202008-12-03T08:39:00.000Z2008-12-03T08:39:00.000Z<I>Come on, there is clearly a link between citizenship and national identity.<BR/><BR/>It would be perverse to deny that.</I><BR/><BR/>Fortunately, no-one is denying that, Mr. McCarthy. <BR/><BR/><I>No, it is about how people can be both Irish and British - equally. Because Ireland and Britain are equal in a way that Scotland and Britain are not.</I><BR/><BR/>What on Earth are you talking about now, you babbling, incoherent munchkin?Alec Macphersonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03234743636500643168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5752826158262183491.post-14744775861947770282008-12-02T18:46:00.000Z2008-12-02T18:46:00.000ZBadgers...we don't need no steenking badgers...Conan the Librarian™http://www.blogger.com/profile/01904339261121451779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5752826158262183491.post-56011495792725721982008-12-02T10:37:00.000Z2008-12-02T10:37:00.000ZIt’s not that I have misunderstood the point made by Chekov. He’s just wrong.<BR/><BR/>Particularly when he says that ‘there is an alternative to ordering states in anything other than primarily nationalistic terms.’<BR/><BR/>A state cannot be ordered in anything other than nationalistic terms. The nation state is the basis on which the world operates. <BR/><BR/>Your argument and his would be that a nation, a country, a national region – however you define it - does not have to be an independent nation state in order to have its own identity and autonomy. You can be quite happy having a national identity as part of a larger unit.<BR/><BR/>Whatever. But the fact is that people can be both Irish and British in a rather less esoteric way because they can be citizens of the UK and of the Republic of Ireland. Because both are nation states with equal status who have come to an arrangement with each other about enabling people who share an identity to have dual citizenship. <BR/><BR/>That is something that could happen here if Scotland becomes independent but will certainly not happen without it. Without it we are all British.<BR/><BR/>You seem to have missed that point quite spectacularly. The idea for example that you could have a Scottish passport is simply absurd. How could you be a Scottish national when Scotland is not a nation state? <BR/><BR/>Also I wonder, when you were reading that speech –<BR/><BR/>'Bound, from the toil of hate we may not cease<BR/>Free, we are free to be your friend'.<BR/><BR/>What did you think that meant?Indyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04383904151475839441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5752826158262183491.post-12579099837760109922008-12-01T19:23:00.000Z2008-12-01T19:23:00.000ZYou've missed the point quite spectacularly. Perhaps try reading the post again? Then read <A HREF="http://threethousandversts.blogspot.com/2008/02/why-unionism-is-not-merely-british.html" REL="nofollow">this</A> and <A HREF="http://threethousandversts.blogspot.com/2008/12/unionism-is-not-just-nationalism-by.html" REL="nofollow">this</A>.Scottish Unionisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09852056180313432298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5752826158262183491.post-47460227776798529942008-12-01T19:11:00.000Z2008-12-01T19:11:00.000ZNo, it is about how people can be both Irish and British - equally. Because Ireland and Britain are equal in a way that Scotland and Britain are not.Indyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04383904151475839441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5752826158262183491.post-41718046585749177012008-12-01T18:47:00.000Z2008-12-01T18:47:00.000ZYes, there's a link, but your argument (such as it is) is a mere contrivance. The thread is about nationalism, not citizenship.Scottish Unionisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09852056180313432298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5752826158262183491.post-7742497819990362882008-12-01T18:33:00.000Z2008-12-01T18:33:00.000ZCome on, there is clearly a link between citizenship and national identity.<BR/><BR/>It would be perverse to deny that.<BR/><BR/>It is possible to be a citizen of both the UK and the Republic of Ireland.<BR/><BR/>It is not however possible to be a citizen of both the UK and Scotland because there is no such thing as Scottish citizenship, in contrast to Ireland.<BR/><BR/>That's a pretty obvious point I don't think I need to say any more.Indyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04383904151475839441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5752826158262183491.post-14731346343493819082008-12-01T14:16:00.000Z2008-12-01T14:16:00.000ZIndy<BR/><BR/>Thank you for not talking about badgers, but are you deliberately misunderstanding the thread? We're not talking about citizenship. <BR/><BR/>And what makes you think I would object to some form of Scottish citizenship? There's no question that the Union has been too inflexible in the past, and perhaps the fact that nationalism persists indicates that it still is. I would have no problem whatsoever with a Scottish passport, for example.Scottish Unionisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09852056180313432298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5752826158262183491.post-61518683329419526362008-12-01T13:40:00.000Z2008-12-01T13:40:00.000ZOf course it's possible to be both Irish and British. You can have dual citizenship. No such option exists for Scots. So I am not really clear what your point is.<BR/><BR/>I suspect you would be the first to object to the idea of Scottish citizenship. <BR/><BR/>Yet it is only because Ireland is independent that people can choose to have both Irish and British citizenship.Indyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04383904151475839441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5752826158262183491.post-15341651795450723862008-12-01T09:26:00.000Z2008-12-01T09:26:00.000ZGads! Now I'm going to have a craving for <A HREF="http://weebls-stuff.com/toons/badgers/" REL="nofollow">badgers</A> all day!Alec Macphersonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03234743636500643168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5752826158262183491.post-21405478195623903702008-11-30T21:28:00.000Z2008-11-30T21:28:00.000ZI'd love to comment on your pic Alec...but anyway.<BR/><BR/>1 badger<BR/>1 glass of pig's blood<BR/>1 small glass of armagnac<BR/>1 ginger root<BR/>1 bottle of dry, sparkling white wine<BR/>2 eggs<BR/>1 pot of crème fraîche<BR/><BR/>salt and pepper<BR/>500g forest mushrooms OR chestnuts to accompany<BR/>100g butter<BR/>oil<BR/><BR/>Eviscerate and skin your badger, and soak it in a fast-flowing river for at least 48 hours. This will help you to de-grease it more easily.<BR/><BR/>Once the badger is de-greased, cut it into pieces and brown it in a frying pan with butter. When the pieces are golden and stiff, flambée with the armanac, season and add a grated soup-spoon of ginger, fresh if possible.<BR/><BR/>Pour over the wine, and simmer gently for at least two hours.<BR/><BR/>At the end of the cooking time, mix the chopped badger liver (cooked beforehand in a little oil), the glass of blood, two egg yolks, a coffee-spoon of ginger and the crème fraîche, and pour into the cooking dish. Serve immediately.<BR/><BR/>This dish goes well with wild mushrooms or chestnuts.<BR/><BR/>Sorry AM2, but Alec started it.Conan the Librarian™http://www.blogger.com/profile/01904339261121451779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5752826158262183491.post-14576499134545244462008-11-30T18:08:00.000Z2008-11-30T18:08:00.000ZP.S. If that's your pic, Conan, you look like you're eating a badger.Alec Macphersonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03234743636500643168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5752826158262183491.post-14479899252883932672008-11-30T18:06:00.000Z2008-11-30T18:06:00.000Z<I>Am2, Alec, make up your minds!</I><BR/><BR/>I don't think we need anyone telling us what we do and do not think. Moreover, we have maintained the same line throughout, so this comment is meaningless.<BR/><BR/>I do disagree with SU in that I don't consider there to be a "British nation", but a collection of them. Even though I'm positively perplexed at his assertion that the inhabitants of England can be divided into "Cornish" (bah, they're South Devonians) and "not-Cornish", this is minor. The point is that national identity/pride, which he and I are endorsing, is somewhat different from nationalism.<BR/><BR/>*Even* *then* I do not necessarily object to nationalism. Bit 19th Century, but neutral all the same. Scottish nationalism, Welsh nationalism, Arab nationalism, Jewish nationalism (a.k.a. Zionism, ya-boo John Wight) does not threaten me or anyone else [1]. It requires one identifiable cultural group which members can adhere to. This does not exist in Britain or the E.U.<BR/><BR/>Back to McAleese's speech, and the soi-disant inheritors of the First Dail. Just how weird is it that she not only spoke at an Orange Hall, but also endorsed Ian Paisley! Plus, does anyone have a direct citation to the Sinn Fein statement? I understand they have a tendency to release these non-traceable statements, thus providing plausible deniability.<BR/><BR/>[1] It is what is done with it which matters, when I may prefix it with "aggressive".Alec Macphersonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03234743636500643168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5752826158262183491.post-16613346248621085302008-11-30T15:54:00.000Z2008-11-30T15:54:00.000ZAm2, Alec, make up your minds!Conan the Librarian™http://www.blogger.com/profile/01904339261121451779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5752826158262183491.post-13651756667927003862008-11-30T14:53:00.000Z2008-11-30T14:53:00.000Z<I>Tell Paw Broon that Britain isn't a Nation, no me.</I><BR/><BR/>This, ladies and gentleman, is what is known as a "cop out". Brown posting here? No. Meet SU, he's not called Gordon.Alec Macphersonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03234743636500643168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5752826158262183491.post-43315135635150363782008-11-30T14:40:00.000Z2008-11-30T14:40:00.000ZThere's that intolerance coming through again. The vast majority of British citizens consider themselves to have British nationality, and hence Britain is a nation. Your denial of that fact doesn't alter it.Scottish Unionisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09852056180313432298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5752826158262183491.post-76993940785855713642008-11-30T13:28:00.000Z2008-11-30T13:28:00.000ZAlec<BR/><BR/>Tell Paw Broon that Britain isn't a Nation, no me.<BR/><BR/>(heh, the word verification is "forket")Conan the Librarian™http://www.blogger.com/profile/01904339261121451779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5752826158262183491.post-54136653420845185812008-11-30T13:18:00.000Z2008-11-30T13:18:00.000ZJames Joyce never did take Irish citizenship, but remained a British citizen.<BR/><BR/><I>However, Republican Sinn Féin issued a statement calling McAleese’s remarks “nonsensical”.</I><BR/><BR/>That's because they have not, for decades, represented the wishes of even a sizeable minority of the populous in the Republic of Ireland (one which, when asked, voted over 90% against retaining the claim to Norn Ireland).<BR/><BR/>Instead they've worked on the undeniable mistreatment of Catholics to fuel sectarianism - the real McCoy, not that short-bread tin, home-by-midnight namby pamby stuff over here - and get the approval of Plastic Paddies abroad. So when an Irish Catholic - and one born in Belfast - deviates from the script, out come the knives. And they call other people Imperialists?<BR/><BR/>If you think this is loopy, just <A HREF="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4156/is_/ai_n18625489" REL="nofollow">deik</A> what a paramour of mine, John Wight of the Edinburgh Stop the War - no, not that one! - Coalition has to say about Sinn Fein.<BR/><BR/>McAleese has said some daft things, notably the Nazi comparison, but I see little objectionable here. From her speech:<BR/><BR/><I>In Westport earlier this week, we had the extraordinary scenes at the funeral of Robert McKibben, a young local man, killed in service with the British Army as a member of the Royal Marines in Afghanistan.</I><BR/><BR/>Another factoid, William Melville, the founder of MI5, was a good little Catholic boy from Sneem in Kerry.Alec Macphersonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03234743636500643168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5752826158262183491.post-7438170012925929042008-11-30T01:16:00.000Z2008-11-30T01:16:00.000Z<I>You are a British Nationalist.<BR/><BR/>Or are you an European "Nationalist"?</I><BR/><BR/>Neither. Those are not single national identities. I'd check the meaning of nationalism, because it doesn't mean what you think it does.Alec Macphersonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03234743636500643168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5752826158262183491.post-88167346092131657402008-11-29T22:29:00.000Z2008-11-29T22:29:00.000ZBird of Prey: Second to SU's reply, I would point out that seeing your identity as even wholly and exclusively Scottish (and there are very few people who this applies to - even a minority in the SNP) does not have to imply that you support Scottish independence or Scottish nationalism. <BR/><BR/>I don't particularly identify with 'Europeanness', but I am a supporter of the ideals of the European Union. <BR/><BR/>So no, it's not just a matter of some arbitrary identity choice. Even if it was, I'd say a divisive headcount based on that is a pretty terrible way of creating states.DGhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06144347543667242514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5752826158262183491.post-54864877946579285422008-11-29T21:38:00.000Z2008-11-29T21:38:00.000ZI apologise AM2, I tried to give you a more detailed response, but my pc did not let me.Conan the Librarian™http://www.blogger.com/profile/01904339261121451779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5752826158262183491.post-32618849352767710842008-11-29T21:27:00.000Z2008-11-29T21:27:00.000ZOOH...<BR/><BR/>As an aside, there seems to be some missing bits in your blog.<BR/><BR/>I'll understand if you don't post this.Conan the Librarian™http://www.blogger.com/profile/01904339261121451779noreply@blogger.com