Comments on Scottish Unionist: Scots “naturally egalitarian” but English “robbed ...

SU The difference between Scotland and London (as...

2009-06-11T16:53:57.530+01:00

SU

The difference between Scotland and London (aside one is a region/city and the other a recognised country - at least in the sporting sense) is that Scotland had and has its own set of laws, bureaucracy and education system within the UK.

London, for all its privelidges, does not.

Before devolution, Scottish wishes on these autonomous areas could be ignored. Devolution has gone some way to rectify that.

However when (not if) the Conservatives return, Scotland will be represented at the cabinet by a Scotland Secretary who will be in effect London's prefect in Scotland and whose party is fighting it out for third place in terms of votes.

That could lead to an interesting situation although I take Dave at his word about "respect" for the moment.

The "more moral" argument is often employed by smaller countries in shadow of larger neighbours. The Kiwis employ it agains the Aussies and the Canuks against the Yanks.

(If you want a taste of Canuk-nat rantings then read Mel Hurtig's "The Vanishing Country" whose hostility to US society shall we say is quite heated - bought it in Montreal but you can get it here on Amazon).

Talking of the Canadians, the Conservatives are not popular in Quebec amongst Francophones due to the Canuk Tories past links with the Orange Order and perceptions of them being the British Imperialist-Anglophone party. To the extent the gradual damage has brought around no official Conservative presence in provincial (although not federal) politics.

Maybe one day something like that will happen in Scotland.

London also "voted Labour and got a Tory gove...

2009-06-11T15:15:50.996+01:00

London also "voted Labour and got a Tory government".

Is that a reason for London to form a city state?!

SU - the political difference between Scotland and...

2009-06-11T12:22:56.293+01:00

SU - the political difference between Scotland and England is not solely (or even primarily) due to the four-party system. It was the "democratic deficit" - the fact that Scotland voted Labour consistently for twenty years and still got a Tory government - that was the main argument for devolution. Over the last fifty years, it has been the norm for Scotland to be governed by a party its voters had rejected. This norm is set to be restored after the next general election.

Wardog I'm an argumentative git - and you'...

2009-06-10T21:22:42.635+01:00

Wardog

I'm an argumentative git - and you're order of magnitude worse! So what makes you think that our endless bickering will take on a more constructive, collegiate tone if transplanted into your new environment?

2009-06-10T20:07:21.092+01:00

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Wardog You say "anti-SNP" as if it'...

2009-06-10T17:55:37.189+01:00

Wardog

You say "anti-SNP" as if it's a bad thing. ;-)

Colin You might as well say that one of the "...

2009-06-10T17:54:36.113+01:00

Colin

You might as well say that one of the "primary arguments" for independence is that the SNP exists. The "different political climate" is largely due to the existence of a fourth party.

Alec - one of the primary arguments for independen...

2009-06-10T11:14:41.416+01:00

Alec - one of the primary arguments for independence is that Scotland and England have different political climates. As this becomes more evident with the decline of the Scottish Tories, it's natural that SNP support will rise.

2009-06-09T15:01:33.424+01:00

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2009-06-09T14:42:42.462+01:00

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Can i just remind the Unionists that i myself hav...

2009-06-09T13:56:14.259+01:00

Can i just remind the Unionists that i myself have seen a few comments from unionists around the blogs etc labiling the Torys as "English" Toffs.

Little clue, he supports Labour, hates the Torys and hates Asda.

Pot kettle slam dunk unionists in glass houses...

'And, the fall of the Tory vote over the past ...

2009-06-09T13:38:33.110+01:00

'And, the fall of the Tory vote over the past 50 years - hastened by Margaret Thatcher - has been accompanied by a rise in the SNP vote.

Why is that?'

For the same reason that turnout is falling.

50 years ago people voted mainly along tribal/class lines. That is no longer the case. That has had two effects - one, fewer people vote and two, people no longer automatically vote the way their parents did.

That is not to say that no-one votes along class/tribal lines any more but it is very much less of a factor. Each party still has their core vote but there are many more floaters and switchers.

>> Add to that that we Tories are the only p...

2009-06-09T10:19:50.920+01:00

>> Add to that that we Tories are the only party ever to gain a majority of the vote in Scotland, you realise his point is nonsense.

Indeed. And, the fall of the Tory vote over the past 50 years - hastened by Margaret Thatcher - has been accompanied by a rise in the SNP vote.

Why is that?

SU give it a break. Your attempts to portray the ...

2009-06-08T11:57:46.816+01:00

SU give it a break.

Your attempts to portray the SNP and independence supporters as fascists are pointless, boring and stupid.

Also rather tasteless when the real fascists of the BNP are being elected.

If you are so concerned about Britishness, why don't you do something about the BNP? Don't you think they present a much bigger threat to your vision of Britain than the SNP does?

After all even when (or if, as you may prefer) Scotland becomes independent we are not going to start loading people onto cattle trucks.

These feckers would so why aren't you as bothered about them as you are about Scotland becoming independent.

2009-06-08T11:09:26.393+01:00

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I did not say: “Alex Salmond also views Scots as ...

2009-06-08T09:19:05.246+01:00

I did not say:

“Alex Salmond also views Scots as innately superior to English.”

I actually said:

“George Kerevan is on the record as saying that Alex Salmond also views Scots as innately superior to English.”

Comparing that with the FT article, perhaps it would have been more accurate to say:

“George Kerevan is on the record as saying that he thinks that Alex Salmond views Scots as innately superior to English.”

Happy now?

SU Thanks for the link. Interesting article, but...

2009-06-08T02:18:02.846+01:00

SU

Thanks for the link. Interesting article, but it doesn't substantiate your first post.

How does...

"Scotland is a more moral nation than England. "I think Alex Salmond would agree with that."

EQUAL

Alex Salmond views Scots as innately superior to English."

???

More than a touch of regular spin on this one SU.

2009-06-07T17:53:03.100+01:00

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Stop squirming, Wardog. You tried to conflate Scot...

2009-06-07T17:47:13.410+01:00

Stop squirming, Wardog. You tried to conflate Scottishness and nationalism. A belief which has as an inevitable corollary that non-nationalists are "less Scottish". Such views take us into all sorts of murky areas in which honest political dialogue is subsumed within a culture of mutual distrust and dislike. Count me out!

Andrew BOD Here's the link, from the FT of 1st Nov 2008.

Excerpt:

“It [the SNP] has enjoyed favour among the Scots intelligentsia for decades. Writers such as Neal Ascherson, Christopher Harvie, Tom Nairn and others united nationalism with different degrees of socialism, creating a culture in which Unionism, and England, were ritually trashed. They gloried in what they saw as evidence of British decline and fissure.

“Coupled with the intellectual case for Scotland (or the case against Britain) is a kind of arrogance: that Scotland is a more moral nation than England. When I mentioned this to George Kerevan, a senior editor of The Scotsman and a prospective parliamentary candidate for the SNP, he said, "I think Alex Salmond would agree with that." When I was waiting, in the company of some older delegates, for a train from Perth to Glasgow, a younger man who had recently lived in London joined us. "Let me tell you," he said, "they [the English] have not got our values. They don't care about society. They are different from us." I said this was nonsense; the older men looked embarrassed and the younger man moved away.”

2009-06-07T17:34:22.099+01:00

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“A yes or no will suffice.”

No.

2009-06-07T17:23:29.896+01:00

“A yes or no will suffice.”

No.

The “demerits of Scottishness”?!! Unbelievable! ...

2009-06-07T17:21:00.798+01:00

The “demerits of Scottishness”?!!

Unbelievable!

Nationalism isn't Scottishness. To think otherwise is simply fascistic.

2009-06-07T09:20:19.146+01:00

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2009-06-07T08:03:24.234+01:00

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Comments on Scottish Unionist: Scots “naturally egalitarian” but English “robbed ...

SU The difference between Scotland and London (as...

London also "voted Labour and got a Tory gove...

SU - the political difference between Scotland and...

Wardog I'm an argumentative git - and you'...

Wardog You say "anti-SNP" as if it'...

Colin You might as well say that one of the "...

Alec - one of the primary arguments for independen...

Can i just remind the Unionists that i myself hav...

'And, the fall of the Tory vote over the past ...

>> Add to that that we Tories are the only p...

SU give it a break. Your attempts to portray the ...

I did not say: “Alex Salmond also views Scots as ...

SU Thanks for the link. Interesting article, but...

Stop squirming, Wardog. You tried to conflate Scot...

“A yes or no will suffice.”No.

The “demerits of Scottishness”?!! Unbelievable! ...

“A yes or no will suffice.”

No.