Britishness invites a multiplicity of identities and it is stronger because of it. The very essence of the United Kingdom is that it cannot be represented by a series of easy clichés in an eight minute package. If nationalists require the nuances of statehood to be presented in such a fashion, that says more about limits of their ideology than anything problematic about Britishness.His post is sublime in a way that our nationalist friends simply won’t appreciate, and is a valuable contribution to the development — across the whole of Britain — of an inclusive, liberal Unionism.
Halftime in America
44 minutes ago
Tell him the nuclear wessels are based at Faslane in Scotland.
Another Union dividend.
Glad you liked the post SU. Thanks for the positive comments.
Had to think for a bit but finally got it: Star Trek IV reference.
Some of us are quite happy to have some nuclear wessels (it's only half of them, BTW; the rest are at Devonport) on the Clyde, both on selfish (jobs) grounds and the wider altruistic basis of doing our bit to deter aggression against the UK and NATO.
At least that's more consistent than the SNP policy of banishing anything with the word "nuclear" in the title but somehow promising to keep HMNB Clyde open. Doing what, precisely?
I think SM73 that an independent Scotland would need its own naval bases and therefore would merely take over the extant UK ones on Scottish territory.
Like the Irish Navy (for its size) has five bases - Dublin, Cork, Haughbowline at Cobh, Waterford and I think Galway.
Hauhbowline used to be the main Royal Navy base in Ireland, HMS Queenstown. Queenstown was the former name for Cobh.
Indeed if we want to build economies on having as many military bases at possible then Ireland is the way. They have pretty much a regular (not TA or FCA as it is in the Republic) set of barracks in every county.
To the best of my knowledge there are just four regular army barracks in Scotland plus the Marine Base Condor.
After the Republic became independent, the new army took over former British Barracks and they were generally renamed.
Dublin for example when I first visited it in 1996 had the following:-
Michael Collins (formerly Royal)
McKee (formerly Malborogh)
Clancy (formerly Islandbridge)
Cathal Brugha (formerly Portobello)
Clancy and Michael Collins barracks have subsequently been decommissioned.
Another noted former barracks in Dublin was Wellington Barracks. Renamed Griffith Barracks after the founder of Sinn Feinn Arthur Griffith, it is now used as a polytechnic also bearing Griffith's name.
These are all bad places Aberdonian because of their nationalistic connotations.
Likewise Nelson's column is bad.
Hadrian's Wall is bad.
The Tower of London - ooh very very bad, built by William the Conqueror no less. And that Queen Elizabeth, let�s not go there.
The White Cliffs of Dover - a symbol of English nationalism with undoubted Nazi connotations. They should be painted pink.
In such ways can we eradicate the scourge of nationalism from our midst.
Aberdonian
Ireland doesn't have a Navy - it has a "Naval Service" with a grand total of 8 vessels, 7 of which are patrol boats with pretensions.
The eighth is a big patrol boat with pretensions.
Why are we discussing this?
As referendum time approaches the SNP is actually going to have to come clean about what sort of defence policy it plans.
Ireland is one model. A fairly shabby model, however. Irish "defence" policy throughout the Cold War and since basically consists of free-riding on the UK for home defence and sending the odd peacekeeper abroad.
And before then, we cannot forget de Valera's monstrous decisions to refuse even US access to Irish ports, and to send condolences to Doenitz on the death of Hitler.
(Yes, I am aware a significant number of Irish citizens signed up to fight for the UK, when they didn't strictly need to.)
Is this the SNP vision for Scotland? Or, like Norway, Denmark etc do they envisage a full-scale military with Main Battle Tanks, Fast Jet aircraft and full-size frigates/destroyers, and maybe subs?
Does either option make any sense combined with the squeamish and pig-headed refusal to have anything to do with NATO as long as it has nukes?
We look forward to the answers.
As for Indy, I have no idea and little interest what he is drivelling on about.
SM753
As I noted the Irish navy (for its size). Are we going to split hairs that it is called the "Naval Service".
No, I would envisage a Scottish navy along Norwegian, Danish, Swedish, Belgian, Portugese etc lines. Strangely these countries are able to afford such things.
Just do not expect any aircraft carriers - not even China has that although they are supposed be working on a second hand Red Navy thing.
As for your rant against De Valera etc. That shows ignorance. De Valera bugged the German embassy and passed the info on to M15. Also Allied troops interned in Eire during the war due to being shot down etc were sympathetically assessed as "unfit for service" under the Geneva Convention by the Irish authorities and sent home to fight another day.
At the end of the day Eire was neutral and to observe its neutrality or get a Luftwaffe payload (which Dublin got as a warning one time). Eire entering the war would more than likely have sparked off another Irish Civil War which might have lead to both Irish and British resources being expended to put it down not to mention destruction of farm land and food resources.
De Valera was foolish for signing the book of condolance. Not of course the UK has ever said it is sorry about the deaths of other mass murderers who died in their beds - Mao, Stalin, Franco etc.
However strangely this was not condemned by Chaim Herzog, the Belfast-born Dubliner who became President of Israel. Indeed Herzog was pally with De Valera and De Valera's government in 1948 was the first European one to recognise Israel. Indeed the same year Dev was the first European statesman to visit Israel and was the guest of one of the Chief Rabbis, Herzog's father who was the First Chief Rabbi of Ireland before he emigrated.
Friend of the Nazis - surely he would have been clapped in irons as soon he stepped of the plane
Check out Herzog's "Living History" and Coogan's "De Valera - Long Fellow, Long Shadow" for some reading on these matters.
Or do you want to remain in knee-jerk ignorance?
Personally I have no problems with NATO membership. But then I am not an SNP member so I am not bound by anything.
Chekov is now your muse.........You are sounding more and more like quentin crisp these days since you were thrown of the Scotsman for peddling lies and accusations.
Does Chekov were the same orange apron and funny hat as you, wanna be britishers united?
I have no truck with orangism and have just posted on the Scotsman, mainly in order to demonstrate that your "lies and accusations" comment is pure fiction.